[00:00:00] Right now, the world needs great men who will stand up and lead with honor, serve with purpose, and courageously fulfill their God given roles as husbands, fathers, leaders, and men. I'm your host, Franklin Swan, bringing you practical tools and powerful conversations you can use every day to build yourself into the man God is calling you to be.

This is The World Needs Men. Let's go!

All right, welcome back to the World Needs Men podcast. I'm really excited for my guest today, Larry Hagner, who is the host of the Dad Edge podcast, the number one podcast out there for dads and husbands. I think they've recorded over twelve hundred episodes, interviewed some of the. Coolest, most epic humans on the planet.

He's a [00:01:00] husband, father of four boys, an author, most recently of the Spirit of Fatherhood and just all around champion for men showing up better in every area of life. Larry, welcome to the show. It's really a pleasure to have you today, Franklin. What is going on, man? Very good to be here, man. Awesome, man.

And just for those who might not know who you are. As we get going, please give us a quick little synopsis of who Larry Hagner is, your mission in life right now, and kind of what journey you've been on over the past few years.

Oh man, I think you just did that in the intro. No, I'm just kidding. Yeah. You know, father of four boys, you know, I'm a dad and husband, obviously first, that is my life.

That's my calling. That's my purpose. I've been married now to my soulmate, my best friend, just a savage queen. And that is Jessica. I've been married to her for 21 years. Uh, I've known her for 28 years and if you would have told me I'd have four boys, you know, at, at, at this age, I, I would have thought you were crazy.

I thought we were stopping at two. [00:02:00] I've been the host and founder of the dad edge since 2000. I think we, you know, it was, uh, it was a Facebook group for 2011 and then it was 2013 that I founded the blog and I think I actually founded like the organization in 2014. So it's been about a decade. I did, I worked full time for a while.

And I did, you know, dad edge on the side. I never really thought it was going to become, you know, an organization or, or a company or the thought of me doing this full time, I would laugh at it. I was like, no, man, it's just a hobby. It's just fun. You know, but it did, it just, it just exploded. And it's, you know, it's really turned into something that I'd never thought it would be.

And, you know, yes, we we've, we've helped a ton of guys, which has been great, but man, it's, it's, totally changed my life. I mean, I'm not only the founder, I'm also a client because I probably need this more than

most. I, uh, I have felt the same way with this. It's, you know, I just, you kind of create the thing that you need and, uh, just, I hope [00:03:00] everybody gets a lot of value out of this, but I know that I'm getting a lot of value out of it.

So that makes it all worth it.

Yeah,

exactly. That's awesome. Well, I would love to start off What I've seen with you on social media lately that you have shared is an all around this knee injury that you had I can resonate with that and I've done a couple of podcasts on it because back in April, May of this year, I had a really bad jujitsu injury.

Ended up having to have a, uh, a spine fusion in my neck. You can see the scar right there. Oh, yeah, I can. And, uh, totally sidelined, sidelined me. Had crazy nerve pain for a couple of months and, and went to the surgeon thinking that they were gonna, you know, prescribe some PT and stuff. And they're like, oh, no, your, your conservative option is surgery.

as fast as we can get you in because I was having atrophy and all this stuff. And so I've heard your story about your knee. And in the thing that [00:04:00] really stands out that I would love to dive into is like, for me and you both, I think that we would probably have considered ourselves to be men who are kind of like on the path, we're doing the right things and how life just can come inside, blind, you know, blindside you out of nowhere.

And so to talk through some of this and have a conversation around it for, for men to kind of think through and understand, you know, how do we prepare for those things? How do we get through them? How do we come out of them? So we just kind of love to hear your story on that just because it's very near and dear to my heart, just going through what I did and, uh, just thought we could have a conversation around that start.

Well, first of all,

thank you for sharing what you did. I mean, that's, I mean, that, that used to be what I did for a living before being, you know, doing that edge, which was, I was in spine surgery, fusions, I've seen tons of them. Yeah. Right. Yeah. When you get one close to the neck, whether it's going from the front, like yours, it can be a little scary and gnarly, but to be [00:05:00] honest, like it's actually the easiest access point versus trying to get to the lumbar spine.

Cause that. That's tough. But last year was a really fascinating journey. And I'll, and I'll tell you, I mean, you're, you're catching me at what I would call every day has been a new peak since then. And I just did something I've never thought I would ever do, especially not after a horrific knee injury that I had last year.

And that's, I just ran my first half marathon. I just did it on Sunday. I never thought in a million years I'd even do one, but I, I was actually, you and I were talking about Keith Yackey. I was in Keith Yackey's office about five weeks ago, and we were talking about impossible goals. And I was like, and I'm, I'm going to be, I'm going to be 50 in nine months.

So I'm like, Keith started talking about, Hey, we, we all need to create impossible goals for the next year. And I started thinking like, Oh, this is my last year, my forties. What am I going to do? I want to go big. So I'm like, I'm going to do things. That's scare me. [00:06:00] Or as Keith says, I'm going to do things that make my butthole pucker up a little bit.

That's his words, not mine, but that's what he said. I was like, okay. So I was like, you know what? I've always wanted to do a half marathon. I'm not even a runner. I mean, I, I run, I've ran like four miles at a time, like at the most. And so like 13. 1, while that seems like nothing to some people, like it was huge ask of mine.

And I was like, I went online and I was like, all right, I want to do a half marathon form 50. I turned 50 next July. I was like, Oh, there's, There's one in October. This was like five weeks ago. I was like, maybe I should knock this out before it gets cold. Maybe I should knock this out before spring. I mean, I talked myself out of it.

Like maybe I should just sign up for it right now. And I did, I just not trained for anything. Yeah, I did. I didn't try. I was, I was like, it was kind of funny. I'm not gonna lie, but I signed up for it. I did it. It was horrifically terrible. Like I, I finished Franklin. I finished dead last in my age category dead last at one point.

I kid you not. This really happened. So like a mile nine, I started to just die out. [00:07:00] I was like, Oh my God, this is really hard. And I had like old ladies passing me, like people that look like they never exercise a day in their life or pass me. But here, here was the one that really got me. I noticed there was a guy like next to me and we were both like, I can't even call it running because it wasn't, it was like a fast walk for a friend.

And I'm like, and I kind of like saw this corner of my eye, this guy who was like, it is very interesting, sort of like stride. He was like, kind of like bouncing. And I'm like, what is this guy doing? And as he passes me, he's got one leg and I never saw the guy again, like not even at the finish line. He was so far ahead of me.

I'm like, But you know what? I was like, you know what? I don't, I don't care because I think that that's the extreme nature of us guys. If I can't do it this way, I'm not doing it at all. If I can't finish in the top 30, I'm just not doing it. But you know what? That humble pie was, was really delicious and terrible at the same time.

But yeah, [00:08:00] here's, here's what happened like a year ago. So a year ago, I'm working out my oldest son and I was in the probably the peak shape of my life. It was the longest I had probably, I had stayed under 10 percent body fat for like two straight years and took a lot of pride in that, you know, that that was, I was training hard, eating right, you know, working out my kids, you know, keeping up with four boys.

I'm in the gym. I'm doing really dumb stuff with my 18 year old. We're doing like burpee cleans with weights. Like we were working with a trainer and this guy had us doing crazy stuff and I just felt like a slight twinge in my knee. I didn't really think much of it. Later that day it started to swell and then it got up to the point over, over a 10 week time period, the swelling never went away.

And every week it just got worse and worse and worse to the point where I couldn't bend it. I couldn't run. I couldn't run like just a couple of like I couldn't run right out of the gate. I couldn't train my legs. Couldn't do squats or deadlifts or anything like that. Could hardly drive. Then I ended up on crutches and nothing was bringing the swelling down.

So I was like, I'm going [00:09:00] to go get this thing checked out. So they did an MRI. The MRI was clean. They could tell I had swelling in it. They're like, you have effusions in there, but there's nothing torn. So they're like, we don't know what's going on. So he drains it. that he sticks a needle in my knee and drains it.

And what I thought was going to be like clear synovial fluid, inflammation fluid was blood. So my knee had been hemorrhaging for 10 weeks. And I was like, Oh my God. I was like, is that blood? And the doctor was like, yeah, that's blood. And I'm like, why am I bleeding? He's dude, I don't know. He looked at me like he was really concerned.

He's I don't know. He's there's nothing torn in your MRI, which that concerns me. I was like, what are you concerned about? He's like, Well, there's a lot of things to be concerned about. He's like, you could have a blood disorder, you could have cancer, you could have all kinds of different things. He's like, we need to test you for everything.

And I was like, Oh my God. So got tested for everything. Everything came back normal, had surgery. I had a condition called synovitis. I didn't even know what that was, but basically what I [00:10:00] did was I ruptured a membrane in my knee and it just bled, just kept bleeding. And we never stopped. The interesting thing about that is, is when you have blood in a, in a joint, like a knee.

It deteriorates the cartilage. It, it's almost, it's like battery acid in your knee joint, so it just completely wore down, like whatever cartilage I had left in there. So I went ahead and I got surgery. I, I, I had it scoped, I had it cleaned up. I thought I was gonna have a really quick, you know, maybe six, eight week turnaround, six months.

And my doc told me he is like, your knee was an absolute mess. So a lot of people like say, well, it's just a knee injury and you know, as well as I do, that when one domino falls in your life, so like think about a man's life, his physical body, how does he feel about his physical body? Right? How does he, how is he operating within his marriage?

How is he operating as a dad? What is he doing in his business? Right. And how is he operating as like this person he's supposed to be? Like those five areas. And when one domino fall in one of those areas, it's going [00:11:00] to spill over into the next. And what that did was is fitness is my therapy. That's how I achieve my physical health, my mental health, my emotional health.

And when that went away, that was the first domino that spilled over into my marriage. It spilled over into my parenting. It spilled over to my business. Like I was a mess. I was a total mess. It was about a hundred days ago. I finally got my head out of my rear end and I was like, I need to turn this around because my business was going downhill.

It wasn't. plummeting, but it wasn't, it wasn't growing. My physical fitness was terrible. My marriage was in a bad spot. My kids, like, I wasn't close to my kids. And I was just like, you know what? I'm going to do 75 hard and I'm gonna do 75 hard with a lot of other things that I'm going to do. Hired a coach.

Keith was my coach. You and I were talking about him. I hired him, started doing 75 hard. And I just started stacking wins. I'm just like, win after win, day after day. And I was just like, suddenly. It became like this obsession and like addiction of I am going to, this is my redemption story. [00:12:00] And I was like, I wonder if I can do things that I'd never done before, right?

Even before I got injured and dude, the path that I'm on now, I just did that half marathon. That's going to be the tip of the spear. I'm going to compete in a men's physique show before I'm 50. I'm going to compete in my first Brazilian jujitsu tournament before I'm 50. I might even, I might even do a full marathon.

I have no idea, but those are the things I am going to do. Yeah, the, the knee thing, like it, it put me out for almost a year. Absolutely

sucked. Wow. And it was something so it's seemingly small, right? I remember when, uh, when I first tweaked my neck for a while, I mean, I was in a lot of pain, but it was like, Oh, you know, I'm sure it's no big deal.

And thank God I've got a, an amazing wife who was like, you need an MRI. You needed to see a specialist and lo and behold, it was like, yeah, I've got a real problem. These things come along and just and just knock us [00:13:00] down. It's like the smallest little, like you call it a domino, but it's also, it seems like a small thing and yet it has this impact across every other area of our life.

It does. And, and I think that men would do well to, to realize just how important. their body and their physical health is to take care of because they might not, they might not be in the habit of taking care of it. And so they just don't even realize the negative impact it's having. Like you were able to see that really well because your body was in a really good place.

And then when it wasn't, the impact was obvious across those other areas. A hundred percent.

It's, it's interesting how sneaky something like that is. And like, for me, the domino is my physical body. Right. And, but for others, it could be, Yeah. And a strange relationship with one of your kids. They're not speaking.

It could, it could be a marriage that suddenly it's not operating the way you always thought it would. Right. It could be like, you just took a massive [00:14:00] hit in your business. It could be all these different things. That could be the first domino, right? And I'll tell you the one thing that I'm really interested in now is it sucks to say this, but like, I've been thinking about this a lot when I was going through all that stuff with, with my knee and the rehab.

I mean, dude, I couldn't even do one revolution on a stationary bike after surgery for like weeks. I could not get that range of motion. Like my leg was so stiff because it had been stuck for so long because I couldn't bend it. The stiffness was terrible. And if you have stiffness, you don't have range of motion.

If you don't have range of motion, you're walking around with a limp, you know, which sucks. But the thing that I was told over and over again is like, Larry, like, you'll get through it. This too shall pass. And bad seasons, man. I, it's, it's winter and it's fall and winter. Like those are the, those are the tough seasons in our lives.

Right. And those seasons pass and spring and summer will be [00:15:00] here, you know, and, and things will be good again, but guess what? That season will pass. So what I'm really interested in now is prepping for winter and fall. And I'm not saying I want bad things to happen, but I'm sure as hell, I'm, I'm stacking as many things as I possibly can in a proactive way so that when winter and fall do come again, I'm much more

prepared than I was before.

Did you have that mindset? I'm assuming you did not have that kind of a mindset before the injury.

I would say not in that realm, for sure. I wasn't expecting something so disruptive, right? In fact, I thought like my entire life revolved around being proactive with everything. That's why I keep physically fit.

That's why I do the things I do in my marriage. That's why I do the things I do with my kids, all these things to proactively elevate those areas. And the thing that I didn't watch out for is, well, what happens if one of these areas falter? What if one of them is built on a house of cards? What if, what if one of them breaks?

And I wasn't prepared for [00:16:00] that. Well, now I'm preparing for that financially, preparing for it physically, preparing for it mentally, emotionally, and preparing for it, right? Like just being a little bit more proactive than what I was.

How much do you think? your preparedness before this, just as a, as a normal course of your day to day, how much did your preparedness before the injury happened carry you through further than if, if you had not been prepared in those areas.

If you had been really out of shape and had this injury, that would have been a whole different game, right? Or if your marriage wasn't going well or relationship with the kids wasn't great before you went into this. That probably would have made it an even tougher challenge to go through.

I mean, I guess in a way, like, maybe I give the situation just a little bit more credit, right?

Because, yeah, I mean, I was proactive in a lot of those areas. But the thing was is that there was a part of me, man, like, and I look back on it and I was like, man, what a, what a really poor perspective, right? The perspective that I had was, is I'm killing it. Like, I'm [00:17:00] unstoppable. Like I'm invincible and then boom, you get that, you get that big slice of humble pie served up nice and warm in front of you.

And you're like, Oh, maybe not. Right. So. I take a different approach now. And the approach is this. I'm really, really, really, really enjoying being in this season of spring and summer again. Like, I actually embrace it. I have gratitude towards it. Like, I actually look back on my days and I'm like, man, I'm thankful for that.

Man, I'm thankful for that. I'm so thankful for that. And I'm stacking, like, those gratitude things that are happening, right? Because I think having that mindset, what we focus on grows and what we focus on expands and our, you know, our frequency is what we'll frequently see. So if I am, I'm preparing for, you know, a season where it could get rough again, right?

But I'm also deciding to not be paranoid and just really, really enjoy and embrace and have gratitude for the things that are good right now.

So what was it that kind of triggered you [00:18:00] into making a change and realizing, I can't stay here anymore. I've got to do something different.

The reason I'm pausing.

So I want to give you like a really, really, I want to be able to point to a place that I was at. And I think it was, I had just started to, Like, I was, I was, I was just starting to like get steps in again, you know, I started like walking and even running again, I would say it was probably like May. I was like, I think I might be on a better trajectory again.

It was, I'll never forget it though. The thing that was the culmination for me, cause I felt like I was like, I was making several strides forward again. And then we went on this cruise. as a family, we went on a carnival cruise back in July. And I told myself, I was like, I think I left for the cruise. I was, I was in pretty good, decent shape, like 175.

You know, it was probably like, I don't know, like 12 percent body fat. I don't know what it was, but [00:19:00] like, I was something like that. I point to that because what I did in the cruise was terrible. So like, I went on this cruise and I was really, really good for like a few days. And then I kind of was of the attitude of like, I'm on a cruise, screw it.

I'm just going to do whatever I want. I'm just going to drink whatever I want. So I had, I drank and I ate bad. I came home. I jumped on the scale. I had gained 15 pounds. Wow. I was 190. And I took a look in the mirror and I actually did a selfie. of my face, how swollen and inflamed I was, like how absolutely unhealthy I looked.

I was like, oh my, I didn't even recognize myself. I was like, what the hell am I doing? I literally, like I got home and I was like, what the hell am I doing? I was like, like, I thought to myself, like, dude, you're, you're starting to turn things around and all you're doing is sabotaging. So basically I was like, get your crap together.

And that's when I decided I got home that day, it was July 8th. And I [00:20:00] was like, I'm doing 75 hard. And that was the train. And then I hired Keith, I think it was the next week. And I was like, I'm going all in, man. I am going to turn this ship completely around. Let's go. And that was it. It was when I stepped off that cruise and really realized how horrible I felt.

And, and how unhealthy

I actually looked and felt. How did you see your wife and kids start to respond when you, when you took that leadership step? That's a great question.

It's, it's really fascinating. My kids actually pick up on way more than I, I ever thought, you know, like, so they were taking note to like, you know, I was drinking on the cruise and I was drinking alcohol, like not that drinking alcohol is bad.

I just, you know, I don't do it that often, but. It wasn't helping anything. But what I noticed was, as soon as I started to turn things around, like, the better my relationship got with my kids. And, and I wouldn't say like it had, [00:21:00] it did have to do with physical fitness. Sure. Because I think that was the first domino that fell that helped me started getting success because the dominoes will fall to your favor as well.

If you start knocking them down. But I would say my kids, the really interesting thing was that my kids friends would make comments and mention that I think helped my kids maybe see things in a different light. So funny, but my, uh, my oldest son is dating this girl in college. And this girl and all, and all of our girlfriends look at my story and they're always sending Ethan text messages like your dad is awesome looking.

He's, he's so ripped. He's this, he's that. He's like, dad, they call you a dilf. I'm like, oh my God, which I think is hilarious. Right? But I think it's hysterical. I don't think I've ever even heard of that. You know, I've, I've only heard it once. And it's because when I was in front, dude, when I was in pharmaceutical sales, like [00:22:00] 20 years ago, one of my coworkers said that in front of our boss and she got fired.

Cause she called one of her doctors that like as one of our customers that not to his face, but she fired her after that. But, but anyway, like, Just things like that, like where the kids would start to see, like, that dad was training again, you know, that I was, I wasn't drinking alcohol anymore. I was playing with them again.

I was practicing football with them. I was doing the things that the other dads were doing. Weren't really doing, you know, like Mm-Hmm. playing a lot with them, swimming with them, throwing them around, wrestling with them. And I think they saw that transformation. They, they, they saw a, a good leader, a playful dad once again, and a, and a guy who had his crap together.

I think people really know, like, man, they pick up on your energy if you're really struggling. And if you're in a bad place, you're giving off that energy and people don't want to be around that. And that's definitely what I experienced with my kids.

And they make assumptions about that. They do. [00:23:00] Right.

It's like, Oh, well, it must be me or my fault, or I must've done something to make dad mad or, but they, they make assumptions. And, and I don't think we, as dads probably realize that to the extent we need to. Oh my gosh. It's.

You know, can I, I want, I want to make a comment on that. And that is, you know, dads in general, we tend to get in our heads.

And when we do that, we get quiet. Right. And a lot of it has to do with the fact that we're not trying to be mean, or we're not trying to, you know, push people away that we care most about. It actually has a lot to do with, we don't want people that we love to see us struggling. So we'll tend to isolate and we'll cower and we'll hide from it.

And when people start to see it, we push them away even more. It's like, Hey dad, you okay? Is everything okay? Yeah, I'm fine. I'm good. No. Right. And they're like, wait, are you? Because you don't sound good. No, I'm fine, man. I'm fine. Like people pick up on that. Right. And I think it's People don't want to be around that energy.

And I think guys [00:24:00] cower when people see that because they don't want their kids or their wives to see that. My wife gave me some really good advice not too long ago and it's really helped. And she's like, she goes, are you, it feels like you're mad at us. And this is like, if I'm having a bad day or something like that.

And I'm like, Jessica, I'm not mad at you guys at all. She's like, then you need to tell us that. And I'm like, what do you mean? She's, if we ask you if everything's okay. And you're just like, I'm fine. We think it's us. The kids think it's them. I think it's me. I was like, it has nothing to do with you. She's then just tell, tell us that she's like, I'm sorry.

I've just had a really bad day. If I seem like I'm a little off, it's because I. I just had a bad day and I'm just trying to work some things from my head, but give me like 15, 20 minutes. I'll be good. It has nothing to do with you. I love you. It's so good to see you. She's like that one, that one action.

You have no idea how much you're letting all of us off the hook. She's like, and if I get in situations like that myself, I need to communicate that kind of stuff to you guys as well, because I don't want you to think that it's you guys. And I, I [00:25:00] don't know what it was about hearing that. And then I started doing it and you could just see the kids and my wife and everything.

Like they would just like, I would be like, Hey, it has nothing to do with you. Like, I'm just bad day, like just sorting some things out in my head. And you can see the kids like, Oh, okay. And suddenly it's, It's that energy is not so apparent as it was

before. Yeah. It's almost like they carry around a little bit of an emotional, like, burden or weight until you communicate that gives them permission to put that down and go, Oh, cool.

I can, I can just relax now because dad took, enough time to just communicate a little bit. And I think that's the important thing too, to note about what you just described. It wasn't some big thing. It's just probably about a dozen words to communicate to them what's going on, where you're at, and, and not just shutting down and saying, Oh, I'm fine.

Which we all know that if I say I'm fine, that means I'm not fine. Right. So that's, uh, [00:26:00] Just for dad to take that little nugget away, like just a little bit of communication goes so far.

It really does. And, you know, and you don't have to like give away the farm when it comes to like, you know, your communication, but like a little bit of, of, of keeping them in the know goes a very long

way.

And you felt like you start making this turnaround, you start dialing yourself back in and you feel them kind of gravitating back towards you. It sounds like 100%. Yeah. So you're on this path. Now you've been doing 75 hard. Did you stop at 75 or did you just keep going? I'm at day 92 now, , day 92. I'm sure there's gonna be someone.

Can you describe 75 hard, real quick, just Oh yeah. For people to have some context.

Yeah. You basically live by six rules on a daily basis, and if you, if you don't, if you don't follow through with one of the rules, you have to start all over again. But 75 hard stands for 75 days of mental toughness. You know, physical toughness and all that good stuff.

So basically the rules are this stick to a diet, whatever that diet [00:27:00] is, basically eat clean, don't eat like an idiot, right? Make sure you're taking in clean proteins and carbs and, you know, fats and all that good stuff. No, no chocolate candy bars or anything like that. No alcohol. For 75 days, uh, two workouts a day.

One has to be outside. So for 45 minutes each, so 45 minutes indoors, 45 minutes outside, no matter what the weather is. Read 10 pages of a self help book every day. Uh, that's another one and take a progress pick every day and a gallon of water every day.

That's it. It's sounds simple. It's not easy. Exactly.

It's simple. It's not easy. And especially when you're like 60 days in and you've got a 5 a. m. flight and you're going to be traveling all day and it's like, how in the world am I going to get these two workouts in? Yeah. Yeah. That's a, that's a challenge. Do you think you could have, like, why does it take such a kick in the pants to kind of get back in gear?[00:28:00]

Do you think when you've gone through a season like you did? Man, I can, I can probably speak

really, really raw to that one. I think for me, why it was so hard, I think it was because like, you know, I, I've been working out consistently for about 30 years ever since I was about 17 and I was a fat kid growing up.

Like I was really overweight and I was made fun of a lot. I wasn't athletic. I was really unhealthy as a kid and I remember what it felt like, you know, living my life in a body that didn't feel like mine and it didn't feel good to even move. And when I injured my knee and I started, you know, I didn't eat very good cause I was depressed and because you're not eating good, you're gaining weight, you're gaining weight.

You don't want to think about that. You have a few beers, a few more beers at night or whatever it is you're drinking. And. It, for me, it got to the point where after months of this, I was like [00:29:00] training and getting healthy actually frustrated me more, just as bad to try to get back to it because I was like, my body doesn't feel the same when I'm moving it.

My energy is not the same when I'm, I'm like, literally like, I actually love going to the gym. It's my, one of my favorite things to do. And when I was in that unhealthy state, I hated it because I hated the way I felt. When I was in there, I hated the way my body felt when I moved. I hated the way, like I was just, I would look in the mirror and I'm like, man, I'm like, how do you recognize this dude?

Like, it just became like a pain in the rear end to want to do stuff like that. It actually became easier or an easier option to do the stuff that was actually putting me in a worse place than than what I was even in, because all I wanted to do was just numb, like not thinking about it. So it really came down to, I didn't want to do it, but I just.

After a while, I was [00:30:00] like, I'm just going to do it. I'm just, I don't care how I feel. I don't care, you know, like how much of a pain in the rear end it is. I'm just going to do this. And I, and I, that's when I started, that's 75 hard, like I said, was, was the catalyst.

Man, I appreciate you sharing that. Is that going through seasons like that where it's, it's not just a physical thing, but it hits you emotionally and mentally and spiritually, and then it affects relationships.

It affects work. Like those are dark spaces to go through. And. It's easier to just go sedate that away in some way, you know, some form or fashion versus to do the really hard work that it takes to to build yourself back and to come back from that. And so more men would probably do. really well to just know that there's better options out there like a 75 hard than, you know, just accepting fate or where they're at and thinking, well, I [00:31:00] guess I'm, I'm too old for this.

The number of men who are, you know, over 40 and say, and I'm too old versus let me go run my first half marathon, you know, compete in jujitsu and, you know, tackle whatever challenge other challenge they're facing, like. Those are the kind of men we need in the world. One's going after it. I agree. I really do.

And

I, and I think, um, we, unfortunately we live in a world where distractions are around every corner and numbing advices are around every corner. You can forget about all your problems that that's one of the easiest things for us to do in our society. All you have to do is look around, there are screens everywhere.

There's devices everywhere. There's weed is legalized in a lot of states. Now you can drink as much as you want. Like there's, there's a lot of things out there that will keep you comfortable, but living that comfortable life is not a, that's not a fun life. Like it's a, it's a very, very, it can be a very dark life for sure.

And, um, I mean, I'll, I'll tell you, man, I [00:32:00] mean, just to get very, very transparent on this. Yeah. You know, I, I was, I was saying when I was going through this, because I remember, I remember you're a faith based guy, obviously, right? Because we prayed before we did this show. And I, I would love to share a story with you that really hits home if you're cool with it.

Please. I was in such a dark place with this thing that, and you know, it's, it's a knee injury, but for me, it was like, affected everything. Cause like I was, not only did I have serious pain in my knee, like I have a whole new respect for people who have chronic pain. Cause I had chronic pain in my knee for months.

People talk about pain, but when it's, it's the first thing that you feel when you wake up, it's the last thing you feel when you go to bed and every minute in between, it's the quality of life just plummets. It's crazy how much chronic pain will impact you. And I remember saying things to my wife that it was like, it was scaring her, but I told her, I was like, If this is my life, because I was reading things on the internet, like about this, this condition I had, and [00:33:00] I was reading things like if the bleeding doesn't stop, they're going to have to amputate your leg.

That's what some people were going through. I was like, Oh my God, if I, I was saying stuff like if I lose my leg, I don't want to be here. That's not the life that I want. That's what I was saying to my wife. My wife was like, Oh my God, like it is so dark. I was like, I don't care. I was like, I can't imagine trying to navigate life like that.

I just don't. And I'll never forget I had, I was in the heat of it and this was before I got surgery and this was before I knew what was wrong. I had just got to the doctor and they were, they told me that they were going to do blood work to test me for hemophilia and cancer and bone cancer and all this other stuff.

And I remember talking to my son out on the deck that night. And we were just having a really great conversation. And he asked me a question. He goes, dad, he goes, what do you admire most about me? I was like, wow, what a great question. And I looked at him and I said, [00:34:00] you know what? I was like, I admire your faith walk.

I really admire How serious you take your relationship with God. I was like, you pray. I was like, you pray openly. You go to church. I was like, we talk about God a lot. I was like, I love the fact that you're at the age you are, but this is really important to you guys. Like, I think that's amazing. So we ended that conversation.

I went into my bedroom because at the time, the only thing that would bring me comfort was laying on my back. Because weight bearing on my knee, or even bending it, or even the blood flow going down would create pressure in the joint, and I hated it. The only thing that would relieve it is if I laid on my back.

So I'm laying on my back, and I do the one thing that they tell you not to do. I go on Google, and I start Googling what my condition could be. And that's when I start reading, like, all these horrific things. You know, if they can't get the bleeding to stop, they're gonna have to cut the leg off where where it's at.

And I'm like, and, and this, there are people dying of bone cancer. And this was a huge symptom that they had and stuff like that. And I remember [00:35:00] like losing it. I remember crying, laying there in bed as I'm reading this stuff. And my son came in the bedroom and as soon as he came in, I was kind of like, did this, you know, wiped my face and I was like, Hey man, what's up?

And he goes, Oh, Are you crying? And I was like, no, no, I'm fine. I was like, I'm fine. I was like, no, I'm fine. And he's like, you are, you're crying. And I'm like, I was like, I'm like, Ethan, I'm terrified, man. I was like, this has gone way beyond what I thought an injury was supposed to be. Like, I'm reading stuff.

I'm gonna lose my leg. I'm gonna read my stuff. I'm reading that I might die. I might have cancer. I was like, I'm freaking out, dude. And my son looked at me and he goes, do you mind if I pray with you? And I'm like, Pray with me like I pray with you like and he's like, yeah, I want to pray for you and I'm like sure and dude It was the most incredible experience I think I've ever witnessed and what I did was I lay I was laying there on my back and he's sitting [00:36:00] there on the Side of my bed and he holds my hands and he closes his eyes and he just starts praying out loud And I just watched him in like absolute awe Because I was like, the words he was saying, there was another presence in that room.

I have no doubt about it. Right. But the thing that was so absolutely amazing to me is I got to see something that I don't think a lot of dads get to see and that is I got to see firsthand what his son or daughter is going to witness as he is the father of his kids, my grandkids, because in that position, I was the kid.

He was the dad. I was laying down on the bed and he was praying over me like a dad would. And I was, I was just blown away by what I felt and what I saw. And I put myself in that childlike perspective, looking up at him. And I was like, Oh my God, like you are going to be an amazing father. Like, and that was, that was such a gift.[00:37:00]

that, that had to have been the most incredible experience. Just, uh, I don't know how you could describe that in words. Like I can feel it. I mean, just held your son. He's 18, 18. I mean, talk about a leader.

Yeah. I mean, yeah, it's, I wrote about it in the book, the spirit of fatherhood. Cause it was, uh, during the writing process, all that stuff was going down and, uh, yeah, it was, Like if, if the knee injury got me a front row seat to that experience,

it was, it was worth it.

Wow. Amazing. Like these little gifts that come out of something that, you know, you look at it and in some ways the most traumatic potentially experience or season that you've gone through, at least one of the sounds like one of the hardest. And yet there's these little moments that would have not been possible.

without it, and then it gave your son that opportunity to come in and lead his own father in that moment. What [00:38:00] is that gonna, how does that shift the trajectory of his life, just getting to have that experience as an 18 year old?

Yeah, I think it was, I think it was really special for him as well. But here's the interesting thing.

For any guy who's out there listening to this, I want to share one, one aspect of the story that I didn't. And that is, I wanted to tell him, no, I think it had to do with ego. I want to be like, no, man, I'm good. You don't have to, you don't have to pray for me. I'm good. You don't have to do that. I'm not, you know, no, no, I'm good.

Like, right. Like, I almost felt like in a way it was like pity, but there was something, something inside me that night. That's like, no, no, no, no, no. You get, get out of the way and, and, and allow this. this young man to do this. He wants to do this. You'd be robbing him of it if you didn't let him. So I did.

And it was, it was incredible. And you know, you know, what's really interesting too is since you're a faith based person, I think you'll really appreciate this, you know, Spirit of Fatherhood, that book actually [00:39:00] happened by total accident. It was never supposed to be a book. I have another book that hasn't been published yet called Pursuit of Legendary Fatherhood.

It's all done, completed. It's been done for two years. And I was going through a publisher for that book. And unfortunately, six weeks before that publisher was going to publish my book, he declared the publishing company declared bankruptcy. So we halted the book. I hired an agent and started shopping the big publishers and Morehouse, the publisher called a meeting with us.

And I thought that they were going to. Signed me a deal for Pursuit of Legendary Fatherhood, and instead they had something much different in mind. They said, Hey, you know, we, we, we actually want you to write a different book. And I'm like, but I have a book done. And they're like, we want you to write a different one.

And I'm like, okay, what is it? And they're like, we like Pursuit of Legendary Fatherhood. We want to publish that, but we want to wait a year for that one. We want you to do something else. I'm like, okay. And they told me, I'm like, we want you to write a book called Spirit of Fatherhood. Christian faith based approach to fatherhood.

And I just [00:40:00] laughed. I was like, that's funny. I was like, you want me to write this? And they're like, yeah. And I was like, you, it's like, yeah, it's funny. I was like, you guys got the wrong guy. I was like, I'm really, really new to my faith. I was like, I was raised, you know, with faith my entire life, but it wasn't until 2020, I had a relationship with God.

And, um, they're like, and they looked at me and they're like, we know that's exactly why we want you to write it because we think you're really relatable. And we think that, you You, you won't write a book like that preaching from a pulpit. You'll write a book like that in the trenches with a guy. And I was like, I can do that.

And I signed that deal. And I sat down in front of my computer and I called my agent and I told her, I was like, I can't write this book. I was like, I don't, I don't know where to start. I don't know how to do it. I feel like I am completely Mr. Imposter Syndrome big time. Like there's no way I can complete this book.

Well, the very next week I got hurt. And that had, I had nothing to do but sit down and write. And what I'll tell you is [00:41:00] I think that that whole, that, that darkness happened for a reason. I didn't know it then, but I know it now. My person, my, where I was at, like that peak that I was telling you about, like that was, I mean, everything was like humming right before I got hurt.

I could not have written that book in the way that I wrote that book in the mental place, emotional place that I was in, I had to be knocked down to write that book the correct way. So I just surrendered to that, you know, and I'm like, okay, well, I'm just gonna. I have no choice but to sit down and write this book and I'm going to write it from like literally the most humble part of who I am.

And that's the way I wrote that book. And it was, I finished, I never thought I'd say this, but I finished the book in just under 11 weeks. That's incredible. Yeah, it was crazy, but I had a crazy deadline too, but, um, but yeah, but I don't think any of that would have happened if it wasn't

for the other stuff.

It always is crazy to me when I look at my own life, how often ego and pride are the thing that's separating [00:42:00] me from either my wife or my kids. And when we, when we allow that to exist, it just builds up a wall. But when we have the humility to just deconstruct that, right, and just be open and vulnerable with them and real and connected, that's when all the good stuff happens.

It's amazing how like us as men, I don't know if it's our hardwiring, if it's just, I don't know what it is, but I feel like pride and ego probably trip us up as husbands and fathers more than anything else out there. I agree. I think humility goes a

long way. Especially for relationships, especially for fatherhood.

So tell, tell us a little bit more about the book. So you wrote it in 11 weeks and you sat down at first and was like, Yeah, I don't even know what to write. So how did that, how did you start formulating the, Just kind of the direction you wanted to go and what you wanted to really deliver in terms of a [00:43:00] message.

I just plugged it into the chat GPT and it, it, it banged me out a book and no, you know what I, uh, so I will admit, because like when I first got pitched this deal, they told me there, it was the end of July and they're like, yeah, so we need this book by November 1st. And I'm like, That's 12 weeks. And they're like, yeah.

And I was like, there's no way. And, but anyway, like I had this really, really fantastic editor and he, he was, he was fantastic. And it was, I think it was great for him too, because he didn't have any kids. He was married and he was pregnant with his first boy when we were doing this project together. And so I got with him and I was like, look, I was like, I need some help, dude.

I need some help with the launching pad here. I was like, cause I am really, really overwhelmed with what to even write. So he sat down with me and he said, he goes, I really think. You know, you need to write this book for, for every type of dad, everything from a dad who is not a dad yet. And he's like literally in the waiting room getting ready for [00:44:00] his wife to deliver all the way up to adult children and everything in between.

He's like, what would it look like if you were to begin the book with, what it felt like for you when you were about ready to have your first kid and all those, what would it look like if you could list off all the fears that were going through your head? Like, Oh my gosh, my life is about to change. And you were saying the things to yourself that you weren't willing to say out loud, but that you were saying them.

And I was like, I think that would be a great start. And so we started there. Which was we kind of start with like how we approach, you know, the younger years. Right. And then it got into like more like adolescence and preteen and then, and then teens, it's really like this whole evolution for, for a dad from beginning to, you know, when your kids leave and like all these experiences that you have in between.

But that's really how we formulated the book. It's four parts and the chapters are super short and they're meant to be so guys can like, literally, it was, I told the editor this, I was like, I want to write this book where a guy can pick [00:45:00] it up off his shelf, look in the table of contents and be like, that's the chapter I need to read right now.

Let's write it that way then. So that's the way I did. I think, I mean, I think it's so many different, it's so many chapters, but they're very short and they're meant to be that way. So a guy can pick it up and just dig right in where he needs to.

What do you feel like you gained from writing that book?

Definitely my, my faith improved tremendously. Absolutely. Tremendously. My, my relationship with God really improved. I had to go out and learn a few new things too. Like I had to, I got, I was familiar with scripture, but I got really, really familiar with scripture. And the cool thing too, is I got to, I got to write it from a place as I was in the heat of humility and learning, which I thought was good.

The other thing that I thought was really fascinating was I have an entire chapter that was about 8, 000 words that did not get included in the book. [00:46:00] but I think that happened for a reason. I'll never forget when I was probably in like the darkest place of this whole thing, and I was working, I was talking a lot with a good friend of mine who's very spiritual, and he told me, he was like, dude, he goes, you were in the heat.

of a spiritual battle. The enemy wants to knock you down so far because he does not want this book out. So he's messing with you. And, and, and it's like, it's really, really, so I wrote an entire chapter on spiritual warfare and it became the longest chapter, but I had to really go dig my heels into like, what is spiritual warfare?

How does it show up? Why does it show up? What do we do with it? How do we recognize it? And what do we go, how do we go about it? And I read, I spent six hours in a Starbucks one day, and I banged out like 8, 000 words, one chapter, all for my editor to be like, dude, this is a killer chapter, but it's way too long.

We can't put it in the book, [00:47:00] but I would say that the, the spiritual battle was something that I was like, wow, like this, I had to go do some research on that one. And, but I saw a lot of things in there that I. seeing the world. And it's, it's a little

scary. Would you, would you be willing to share a couple of your key takeaways or points that, that were discoveries of yours as you dove into that?

Yeah. So

I'll never forget. And I didn't know much about spiritual warfare at the beginning of the process of writing. I told my friend who I was, I was referring to, I was like, Hey, guess what? I just got this book deal. He's like, Oh, awesome, man. He's like, what's the book? And I told him, I was like, Spirit of Fatherhood.

He goes, is this a faith based book? I said, yeah. He goes, huh. Watch your back. I was like, what do you mean? He goes, it's always the tallest tree in the forest that we get hit by lightning. It's always the guy on the front of the lines. It's going to get shot at. And right now that's you. And I was like, what are you saying?

I was like, dude, I'm like, I'm trying to do something for the [00:48:00] good, for the, for like the kingdom. Right. And he goes, that's exactly why you're going to be messed with. I was like, oh man. Okay. Right. And then like, literally. The next week, boom, everything went, went dark, right? But spiritual, spiritual warfare, right?

If you, if you don't have any type of challenges in your life, then you're, or if life always seems to be awesome at all times, chances are you probably aren't living it as full out as you possibly can. Right? So that there's, there's one. Number two, if you're a faith based dad, right? If you're the spirit, if you are an active spiritual leader in your family, well, Not the rain on your parade, but you're, you're going to be a target for the enemy.

The enemy has, he's got no interest in people who either are non believers, he's already got them wrapped up. He's not even interested in people that are like, Hey, I'm a good person. Like I'm a good person. Like I do the right things. Like I don't need to go to church. Like I'm good. Uh, the enemy is like, I [00:49:00] already got you, bro.

Like, I don't need to spoil that. That's all right. You know, don't give him a reason to look for something. Exactly. But the enemy wants the guys that are out there moving the needles. for good, right? Moving the pointing arrows more towards the kingdom, right? Pointing arrows more towards like, I'm going to, I'm going to raise my kids to be faith based prayer and praying kids, right?

To be giving and caring and to give something like spirit of fatherhood to dads out there who want to improve their faith. And that is the man that the enemy is interested in. And the best way, like the way I wrote about it is think of a football team, right? You've got, and they call it heaven and hell, right?

Those are the two teams. The enemy is not worried about the people in the stands. He doesn't care. Like I already got you, you're mine. He's not worried about the people even necessarily on the bench because you're not an active, necessary player in the game. What he's, what he's gunning for is if he's on one side and you're on the [00:50:00] other, he's like, how do we take these dudes out so we can win?

Right? Like, how can we actively go to battle with these guys to disrupt them so much that we win? And that's the way I described it in that chapter is that if you're an active player outspoken about your faith, You know, you, you teach your kids about it. You talk about it with your friends, your relatives, you go to church, you're trying to do some, put good out in the world.

You're going to feel that heat, right? But here's, here's the good news. If you feel that heat, you're on the right track. You're, you're actually on the right track because if you're not feeling any heat, then your faith is probably not as deep as it

could be. That is such a powerful analogy and way of of presenting that for men listening to that, that, that should hit you pretty hard in the heart because it's either convicting if, if life is to all of us, you know, you look around, it's like, man, life is [00:51:00] really simple, easy.

I don't have a whole lot to worry about. That's a, that's a gut check for getting in the game. And then if, if you do, like, feel like challenges are coming your way, it's, it's kind of like the good news is. You know, you're on the field. The bad news is you're on the field. And so either way, that's a pretty convicting way of looking at that, man.

That's heavy. Yeah.

Yeah. And I, and I think too, like that's when it's time, that's when it's time to double down. That's the time when it's, when it's the hardest. And I, and I went through, I went through some anger. Even dude, there were times where I'm like, I am trying to do something good and I'm killing myself trying to do it.

And all the while, like my life is going like downhill while I'm doing this. Like, like I, I was there sometimes I was praying. I was like, I was like, man, what the heck, can you [00:52:00] help me a little, you know, but. You know, I mean, like we're tested because I think it makes us stronger. I mean, like, I don't think I'd be at the mental place that I am now had I not gone through that darkness a year ago, because it makes me really, really appreciate it more than I, more than I did before.

You

know, when the enemy comes at you, Cause you're an active player. He's trying to get you to just go sit down on the sidelines. That's, that's first thing he's trying to do. But if you get through a season, right, you get through that injury, you get to the spring and the summer of life. Now you're stronger.

Yeah. Now you're wiser. Now you're more resilient. You've got a deeper faith in God that carried you through. You've got more perspective. And I don't know if this is, uh, something you found or not, but the thing that comes to my mind is the more you get through those challenges, the more you probably [00:53:00] reduce.

your attractiveness as a target. Cause it's like that guy's just really hard to take down. Maybe I'll go put my efforts in on someone who just got on the field.

Great. Agreed. Yeah. The targets, you know, like I said, if you're doing good in the world, you're probably gonna, you're probably gonna have some challenges.

Man, that's awesome. I really appreciate you sharing that, uh, especially something that wasn't in the book, but I mean, to look in that spiritual warfare, that's, uh, that's powerful. Yeah. Larry, man, this has been a real deep, uh, conversation. I, I appreciate your just openness and vulnerability so much. As we begin to kind of bring things to a close, what would be a kind of a final thought you would leave for the men listening to this just to encourage them, equip them, just whatever's on your heart right now?

As we get to, uh, to the end of this.

Yeah, I think that's a great question. I, you know, one of the things that, I mean, I've been doing this work now for about 10 years. [00:54:00] And one of the things that have been the biggest focus is, is, is the men is the fathers, right? And we've, I think we've helped over 4, 000 fathers, you know, since, since inception of who've come and done life with us in some way, shape, or form.

And You know, what I'm really interested in now is, is not just helping, you know, dads, right? But, cause, cause here's the thing, a lot of times dads don't even, we don't even look at ourselves as worth investing in. And when I say investing, I'm not talking about just money, I'm talking about like time, I'm talking about energy, like things that are going to move the needle in your relationship with your kids, within your own mindset, within your marriage.

All these things are tactical skills that we talk about. And the thing that I always encourage men to think about is if you're not going to do it for you, realize that what you decide to do and what you not decide to do is bigger than you. In other words, the thing that really has my attention these [00:55:00] days is now that I have older kids, I mean, I have an 18 year old, 16 year old, 10 year old, 8 year old, but now that I have like these two older kids, The thing that's really got my attention is generational impact.

It's great that we've helped our generation of dads, right? Which we, which we have, but what are we going to do to equip this next generation to make sure that they don't falter and they don't run into the same, some of the same situations or bear some of the same crosses that we've had to bear. Like when we're all the while, what we're trying to do is equip them and make them better human beings than us.

So what I tell men is the work that you decide to do will greatly impact not only you but your kids. And here's the other flip side of this, and you're not gonna like hearing this, the work that you decide to avoid will also greatly impact you and your kids. And you gotta decide which one, and guess what?

Both roads are hard. their heart and everybody has heard this thing of like, choose your heart. [00:56:00] If you decide to come and do work, you know, on yourself to build a better marriage, build a better family, a better you, that's going to take a lot of hard work. And if you decide to avoid it, that's going to be a lot of hard work.

So either way, it's going to be difficult, but you have to

decide which one is more worth it. Well, one side is rewarding work and the other one creates guilt, regret, shame, all those things. Amen to that. Man, Larry, this has been a pleasure and honor and just a really fantastic conversation that, uh, you know, my prayers that this will hit some men in the heart, uh, and in a powerful way.

And I promote coaching big time, uh, on this show and I know that you've got a lot of resources for men. So if, if you have hit someone in the heart just right today and they wanted to connect with your group, your, your coaching, your training, your resources, where would they go? Uh, go to find all that,

uh, best place to do it is the data edge.

com forward slash mastermind. We have two different programs over [00:57:00] there. One is for business owners and one is for non business owners. We have one that's called one called the Alliance. That's our non business owner. And one called the boardroom. That's our business owner. One. Those are two programs.

Those are group coaching. And then I do one on one coaching as well. So

three, three ways to work with us. Awesome. Well, we'll include the contact for you in the show notes. And, uh, man, I just so appreciate your time today and appreciate the work you're doing and the people you're serving. You're making a difference, man.

Back at you, man. Thank you so much for having me. This was really, really great. Absolutely.

If you enjoyed today's episode, please subscribe to the podcast, give us a rating and review and share this episode with one man, you know, needs to hear this message. We want to encourage as many men as possible to show up as the strong leaders, loving husbands, and intentional fathers their family deserves.

And until next time, be the man the world [00:58:00] needs.